Tape 3, August 25, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	They were writing reports on her condition?
J:	Every single day.
L:	Was she sickly?
J:	Very sickly, fragile woman.
L:	Was she on medication?
J:	No, I do not believe that was allowed.
L:	So, she was sick, she had Scientology people spying on her before these 12 to 17 people came -
J:	During and after. It was all set up. They told what she did every moment of the day. "We took her to the mall today, she bought this today." Neville [?] was reporting to David Miscavige every day.
L:	Personally?
J:	Personally.
L:	Were they worried that Mary Sue Hubbard would - What were they worried about?
J:	That she wouldn't sign exactly what they wanted her to sign.
L:	So, she had no choice?
J:	None.
L:	12 to 17 large men in uniforms standing around her ..
J:	..telling her she's got to do it.
L:	Other people were telling her to sign it?
J:	The people were telling her to sign it was Norman Starkey, David Miscavige, the attorney just handing it to her telling her this is the release form, or whatever. I never said a word when I was there, Vicky never said a word, I don't think Marty spoke to her.
L:	Why were 12 to 17 people in uniform necessary?
J:	Because David Miscavige said we need to go in there. Mark Yeager was there. David Miscavige said we need to go in there and show a unified group of people from the church that we're running things and it's got nothing to do with her and she is not entitled to anything.
L:	Did he say that?
J:	Yes. I'm paraphrasing pretty much what he said. David Miscavige said she is lucky to get what she's getting. Ray Mithoff was there.
L:	Was he going to convince her that she wasn't entitled to anything?
J:	Yeah. And, I'll tell you the moment when she actually relinquished and signed the document, they pulled out their ace in the hole. She was actually kind of sad that he died, because they had been separated and hadn't talked for a long time. Actually, they hadn't be en talking that much since she had gotten out of jail. She asked Ray Mithoff with tears in his eyes if he had said anything, or asked about her before he passed. He said no, he didn't mention your name. At which point after the meeting he reported with glee how he know that had really got to her, just to know that she's a piece of shit that he never said anything. At that she bowed her head and they just stuck the papers underneath, like this, and she started signing.
L:	She had no representation. How much time was she given to think and read, and think about whether she wanted to sign and waive her whole inheritance, her children's inheritance.
J:	A couple hours.
L:	Alone, she was left alone?
J:	No, never alone. We stayed there for 2 hours.
L:	For 2 hours you, David Miscavige..
J:	Norman Starkey...
L:	- just kept talking at her, they screamed -
J:	they screamed.
L:	Loud?
J:	You could hear it outside with the door closed.
L:	Screaming at her to sign this document.
J:	And telling her we're going to sec check you, and you're out of ethics and all of this.
L:	They threatened her with all these punishments in Scientology?
J:	Right.
L:	And the lawyer sat there and watched this.
J:	Right.
L:	Arthur went through the same thing?
J:	He was much more submissive because he had been gotten to earlier. He escaped, ran away from the church, went to Hawaii. They had PIs track him down. He just wanted to be away.
L:	What do you mean, gotten to earlier?
J:	Like I say, he wanted nothing to do with Scientology any more, nothing to do with the Sea Org. He just wanted to be a normal person. He escaped, dyed his hair black, assumed names, all this stuff. Ended up in Hawaii, just kicking around, having a good time. They found him, escorted him back.
L:	They sent PIs or someone out to find him?
J:	PIs different church members, and brought him to me.
L:	Physically?
J:	Physically, brought him to me.
L:	Was it with his approval, or was he kidnapped from Hawaii?
J:	I think his brain was scattered because they had coerced him all along the way, and now this was his thing.
L:	So they brought him to you, why?
J:	To audit.
L:	To audit. Why do you think he was gotten to sign this thing earlier before Mary Sue, what made you think he was going to go along?
J:	Because I think his sister, his two sisters signed it willingly signed it. They were probably were used to coerce him to sign it. Diana and Suzette, who were still both in the Sea Org.
L:	How much did Diana and Suzette get?
J:	I think they got $50,000.
L:	$50,000. Were they, did they have attorneys that represented them?
J:	Like I say, at no point did I ever see them having any attorneys. L; They had no legal counsel?
J:	No. Intimidation.