Tape 3, August 25, 1998

Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince

L:	Continue.
J:	[Reading] "Don Larson was beaten." I didn't see this happen, but I know him. I don't doubt that he was beaten. [Reading] "Ron Miscavige OT 7, married to Loretta Miscavige, an auditor and nurse, suffers deep depression from behind closed doors. He seems happy and jovial, and the ideal Scientology care, but he suffers quite a bit from depression." I think this very much is the case. My first association with Ron Miscavige was after he had been involved in some kind of rape incident with a young woman. Some very serious Scientology resources went into containing the situation with his father.
L:	What do you mean by serious.
J:	Private investigators, lawyers, people talked to the press to make sure there was no story about it. A lot of money was exchanged, in getting his father through that. He was immediately brought to Gold with the mother, where they were saying they were having marriage problems. David Miscavige's idea was to end the marriage, because his mother didn't want to be in the Sea Org. She wanted nothing to do with it. He kind of convinced his father he should be in the Sea Org because he's getting into too much trouble out there. As his father decided to join the Sea Org, his mother didn't, he arranged for their divorce.
L:	David Miscavige arranged his own parents' divorce?
J:	Yes. And his mother, his own mother, from her lips, I heard her say he was like a little Nazi Hitler, he was like a little Satan. She was very disgusted with him. She went on ahead and gave the divorce, and kind of disappeared for a while. Ron Miscavige was very often depressed and fits of, he would just have fits and start screaming at the top of his lungs. He would go from way up there to like, "Oh, I can't do nothin', I feel bad, I'm sick, leave me alone, don't want anybody around." He was up and down like this, quite regularly. Like he was seriously unbalanced, which is like a little mirror into his little son.
L:	When you said that money was thrown at people to quiet the story of David Miscavige's father rape, the rape that he performed on someone -
J:	Right.
L:	- do you mean that cash was given to silence the rape victim, or to silence government people, or political investigators? What do you mean, what's your knowledge there?
J:	My actual knowledge is nothing concrete. This is who I know who went to deal with the situation. David Miscavige himself, Marty Rathbun, Lyman Spurlock was there, about 5 different attorneys, Larry Heller being one of them, Shermans were involved with it. All went down when it happened, and they went with money, and the intention to make this go away.
L:	Were there criminal charges?
J:	Against Ron Miscavige?
L:	Yes.
J:	I believe there were, but somehow he got out of them.
L:	So, the criminal charges were dropped when Scientology and its lawyers and its money came in? What county was this in?
J:	I don't know?
L:	What state? Do you remember where the rape occurred?
J:	It was in Philly?
L:	Philadelphia? So Ron Miscavige was charged with rape and all the charges disappeared?
J:	Everything about it disappeared, the story, the information about it, it's just gone. I mean they stayed up there for about a week.
L:	All of them, right? Who paid for this, did the church of Scientology pay for this?
J:	Yes.
L:	So, David Miscavige potentially could have written out $30,000 $40,000 $50,000 $100,000 maybe more during this week to change, to get his father off the rape charges?
J:	Right. That's a certain fact, being that he brought outside people in there and they had to be paid. So you can at least say just to pay them, along with all the investigators and the attorneys was that.
L:	And the PIs. What PIs do you know were involved?
J:	Ingram was up there.
L:	Ingram was up there. What would allow him to pay this money out of the church. What if this happened with - Was Ron a member of the Sea Org at this time? This was a public person, that David Miscavige was using the church assets to buy him off a rape charge?
J:	Right.
L:	Would that, could any other staff member in Scientology write checks out for public person who got in trouble?
J:	That was the one and only time I've seen it happen.
L:	You said Sherman Lenske, the two brothers there. What is the role of Sherman Lenske in Scientology?
J:	They, as I recall them specifically, they would arrange to make sure, or get them advice to make sure that it was covered up, that L. Ron Hubbards' authority and control over all corporations was covered up during the time he was living. They also advised him on certain things to make LRH not do, and not say. That was also a big discrepancy and problem, that ended up with the brokers. His attorneys would limit LRH's control more and more. The excuse was "We give you any kind of money you want, just shut up and take the money and let us run things." L. Ron Hubbard felt like he was just pushed out of the picture, not that he shouldn't have been, because he was pretty damn crazy, and I'm not justifying one way or the other, but that was the struggle with the brokers and L. Ron Hubbard. David Miscavige I believe, just forced L. Ron out of existence.
L:	He was just taking control away from Hubbard a little piece at a time while he was alive?
J:	Yeah, and L. Ron Hubbard saw it. I had to sec-check David Miscavige on this. L. Ron Hubbard asked me, "Please find out what is his intention, what is he doing by making it so I can't even sent a dispatch or order anyone to do anything that I normally do."
L:	L. Ron Hubbard believed that David Miscavige may be trying to take over control of Scientology?
J:	Yes.
L:	And he was worried about it?
J:	Yes.
L:	He sent you to..
J:	..investigate it.
L:	To do a security check, and find out any overts and evil intentions -
J:	...activities that he had been doing.
L:	When you sec checked Miscavige on that, did anything come up?
J:	Yeah, he was in complete disagreement with L. Ron Hubbard, he was in complete disagreement with Pat Broeker as to what should happen and when it should happen. And he was sick of giving them money because he said they just wasted money.
L:	So he was even thinking of cutting L. Ron Hubbard off from money?
J:	Right.
L:	Let's talk about Lenskes, the attorneys.
J:	These are the attorneys that gave him all of the advice, and worked with Lyman Spurlock in order to set up the corporations and make them seem somewhat virgin and dissociated from each other, which effectively moved L. Ron Hubbard completely out of the picture.
L:	Do you believe the Lenskes attorney, Sherman and who else? What's her name?
J:	I don't remember.
L:	The Lenskes, this law firm, these two people. Do you think that they were aware that they were committing a fraud by hiding the real control of - .
J:	I think they knew it implicitly, there was no question.
L:	Were you ever at a meeting where they said anything or did anything that implied that they knew L. Ron Hubbard controlled Scientology, and they were trying to create a -
J:	Absolutely.
L:	Can you -
J:	I was there when both brothers were there, I've been there several time, 10 times, 15 times. They were regular. When the probate situation came up, they were the attorneys for that. They were doing all of the advising and stuff like that. I was privy to some of those meetings, which covered many subjects, as opposed to having people running in and out. At that point in time we were just allowed to stay there and listen to everything. Yes, they were very much aware of the destruction of the documents throughout the different Scientology corporations to show no L. Ron Hubbard control.