Tape 3, August 25, 1998
Lawrence Wollersheim and Jesse Prince
| L: |
Was that Mark Baracy?
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| J: |
I don't know which one it was, there's been more than one. His was
back in '81, I believe it was. Oh my God, now he's a homosexual, now
he's a fit to be tied, because he's done with Scientology. If they can't
handle that he's homosexual, too damn bad. So now people, auditors and
CSs are going out to his place, where he lived in Florida, where he had
the landing strip, just staying with him weeks at a time, trying to
re-convert him.
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| L: |
Just talking him into it, pressuring him?
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| J: |
Right.
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| L: |
Do you think these celebrities have the feeling that they -
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| J: |
They can't live without Scientology. The ones that are deeply into
it, they think that they've got to have it.
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| L: |
Do you think any of them are concerned that all of their confessions
are in the hands of Scientology?
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| J: |
I think every one of them are.
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| L: |
What makes you think that?
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| J: |
Because the instant, whether you're a celebrity or anyone, you start
screwing up, they start pulling out what you say in your files.
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| L: |
Do you think they've done this to any of the celebrities?
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| J: |
I think they've done it to every one of them.
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| L: |
What would make you believe that?
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| J: |
Because that's what they do to control people, it's part of the
control mechanism. "Hey look, you think the reason you could be having
trouble in auditing," and this is done in a very slick kind of fashion,
"well, you're doing this this and this, and that's kind of immoral and
wrong, isn't it? Oh, let's talk about this." Do you see what I mean.
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| L: |
So the reason you want to leave is because of all these things that
you're doing in your life that aren't right, and that's why your
auditing isn't working, which sends a signal to the celebrities that we
know what you're doing is illegal..
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| J: |
We have it written up real nice, we even show it to you. You see
these things, you see, that has impact which I've since come to know,
especially from that damn deposition I was just in. It has impact.
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| L: |
Besides Travolta, has Kirstie Alley, or Mimi Rogers, or any of the
other celebrities that you know of have any of them gone psychotic,
or...
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| J: |
I know Priscilla Presley was on the edge. They were having her -
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| L: |
Did she ever want to leave Scientology, have nothing to do with it?
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| J: |
I think she's done it.
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| L: |
She's left it a couple of times, and they go and bring her back. Do
you think they use well, you already answered that.
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| J: |
They use the bad points and they say, well, you're still having
trouble, let us help you. What you are doing is bad, it's that whole
thing of we're going to make you perfect, which is, we are going to use
your imperfection to control you utterly, totally, completely.
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| L: |
So you think they're using what they know in the PC folders and tell
them the reason that you're not happy with Scientology is because of
these crimes and other activities over here, and we can help you fix
that.
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| J: |
Right. And you need to do something about that anyway, because you
could be in trouble. Do you know what I mean?
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| L: |
Do you think the celeberities know that Scientology might - if they
turn against Scientology, do you think these celebrities know that their
confessions would be used against them? Do you think that's -
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| J: |
I think they have a pretty good damn idea. Because celebrities know
what happens to ex-members.
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| L: |
They do know?
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| J: |
Oh hell yes, the SP declares. Rundown of everything a person
basically has said in his auditing or in confidence trying to get help
now, it's probably published, this person is a sexual deviant, he's a
this, he's a that, he's done this. Yes, they see that. They are told,
don't mess with these people, you see how evil they are. They read
these things, and they say, "Well hell, I've done this and I've done
this too." I could see my name being on this piece of paper someday.
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| L: |
What's the next thing on there?
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| J: |
John and Diane Colletto, I've spoken extensively about it. [Reading]
"Annie Broeker, CSed Annie Broeker had a psychotic breakdown during
auditing. When last this staff member saw Annie Broeker she was being
audited quite a bit, she remembers a lot of screaming, yelling coming."
Annie Broeker, I just seen this woman tormented, tormented. First they
broke up her marriage with Pat Broeker, made him out to be the complete
villain, got rid of him. She stayed in the church; she goes from trying
to stop some of this madness that goes on by David Miscavige to being in
complete submission to him. And then, the last I heard about here, they
separated her second marriage, she married to another person..
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| L: |
They literally tell he to separate?
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| J: |
Yeah, he's got to go, he's no good.
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| L: |
They break up the marriage?
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| J: |
They break up the marriage, they did it two times.
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| L: |
They give her an order.
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| J: |
Yeah, they give her an order, and then last person. His name was
Jim, what was his last name.. He was in musician's unit with David
Miscavige's father, and he hated Ron Miscavige because he thought he was
a little psycho, just like his son, and he never could get along. He
married Annie Broeker and then they broke up the marriage. Declared
him, threw him off, threw him away. Well, he disguised his voice and
all of this other stuff and talked to her, because he knew the phone
numbers. She blew, flew to Florida, Mark Yeager and Marty Rathbun were
waiting for her in John Travolta's personal plane, they were there
before her commercial flight landed, and they literally walked her right
onto the airplane and back.
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| L: |
Why would they do that? What knowledge did she have that they were
so -
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| J: |
She was with L. Ron Hubbard for the last 5, 6 years on a daily basis,
as a servant. Washed and bathed him, cooked his food, took his
dictation. Sent his orders from him to the different church
organizations.
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| L: |
So she knows the real L. Ron Hubbard. She knows about the will, his
death, the estate -
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| J: |
The drugs, the insanity, everything.
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| L: |
Do you know where she is now?
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| J: |
I believe she's still at Golden Air Productions.
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| L: |
Did they let her leave?
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| J: |
No, no, no. They hold her. If she left it would be devastating, and
she's been trying to go. Oh, so then what they did - .
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| [STOP AND RESUME] |
| L: |
OK, who's next on the list?
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| J: |
[Reading] "There is a study about miscarriages and birth deformities
among female Scientology staff members, particularly in certain
divisions of Scientology. This was done because even internally, they
were alarmed at the number of babies being born deformed, with extremely
low rate, and with a lot of difficulties." Well, the common practice for
a woman in Scientology, in the Sea Organization who gets pregnant is
being degraded for number one being pregnant. They're put under undue
stress and they're told that they're going to still be demanded to
perform their duties, just like they would if they were not pregnant.
Very often these women don't - |
| [END OF SIDE OF TAPE] |
| - They are just known to have miscarriages and the women don't take care
of themselves, there's no prenatal care whatsoever, I've never seen a
woman have prenatal care.
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| L: |
No prenatal care?
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| J: |
No, none whatsoever. Never ever seen a pregnant person been allowed
to have any prenatal care.
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| L: |
How many pregnant women have you seen at Scientology that you know,
that you don't believe had any prenatal care?
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| J: |
A few, Kathy Rinder, Sue Price, this one that I was telling you
about, Spanky Taylor - damn near lost her baby, it was born at 3 pounds-
Cindy Schafner, when she was pregnant. You don't go to a doctor, you
don't do nothing.
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| L: |
Why no prenatal care?
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| J: |
Because, I don't think they want to spend the money. I think it's a
financial issue. It's like the person is already doing a bad thing, why
throw money at the bad is the thought.
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